The Suicide Discussion

As I’m about to post this entry, I hear the “MASH” theme song in my head. I know the lyrics well, it was my favourite song when I was a teen:

Suicide is painless

It brings on many changes.

And I can take, or leave it

If I please.

The context of this song with the show M.A.S.H. was conveying the despair, helplessness and inevitability of death from the point of view of conscripted physicians and nurses in a U.S. med-evac post in the Korean war. They saw senseless destruction, constant devaluation of the human life, and were faced with the spiritual struggle every second of every day for years on end. The thought of suicide as the one thing they had control of was an oddly soothing one, and it was a song I felt comforted by when I was a confused, suppressed gay kid. Sometimes a war zone doesn’t have any bloodshed, but the symptoms are the same.

Okay, so we have John, George and Kurt. I’ll just do this in a conversational, question – answer format, starting with questions I’ve heard from clients.

Number one, and I’ve gotten this a few times, “What would happen if I just did it? (committed suicide.)”

John: As you’ve said previously, your experience of the afterlife is affected by your state of mind when you die. If we pass through emotional anguish and trauma, you can sometimes feel lost. The afterlife isn’t there, just your emotions, all the imbalance, the sorrow, the resistance to dying.

Kate: Is that how it was when you died John? Getting shot is a pretty violent way to die.

John: I wasn’t well balanced before I died. (He shows me at least five years of reclusive life, almost agoraphobic, hermity behavior. He was depressed too, and emotionally toxic at times. Disturbed sleep patterns.) Well, on some level, my soul knew my time was soon to be up. I did go through a phase of being afraid to leave the house, and it was more than the crowds and all the bullshit which comes with being famous.

John: The emotions of all the people surrounding me after I died, their grief was so heavy, I felt responsible for it. It wasn’t until I was able to let go of that grief and my attachment to the experiences on earth that I was able to begin to experience the afterlife as a world unto itself.

Kurt chimes in: When I died, it was euphoric. Complete relief. Being alive was fucking torture.

Kate: You had an addiction that was making things really rough for you, eh? And you told me about that depression, bi-polar or something? You struggled through your teenage years as well as your twenties. You were unhappy for a long time.

Kurt: That was part of the point.

Kate: Kurt, did you have to go through any sort of punishment for killing yourself?

Kurt: The only punishment is what you put yourself through. Everyone has to look at their life with honesty. After I died, I understood how well I was loved, and that was unexpected.

Kate: Do you regret your suicide?

Kurt: I regret how I went about it.

Kate: What do you mean?

Kurt: (turning away.)

Kate: It’s okay, you don’t have to talk about it. I got the sense you regret how long and drawn out it was, all those overdoses. Were those suicide attempts too?

Kurt: Sort of. I was just so out of control. No one could bring me down. I felt like I was beyond help.

Kate: Were you? (beyond help)

Kurt: (no answer)

Kate: Did you have to do anything to balance out your karma or something like that? Would other people have to do some sort of penance if they followed your, uh, I hate to say example…

Kurt: Some people did – that’s what I regret the most. God, people did shit just because they thought I endorsed it or something, like I’d ever recommend heroin addiction or getting shot in the head. It was awful. (Kurt shows me a small crowd of people who were somehow attached to him when they committed suicide.) It’s like, you don’t want to be anyone’s excuse.

Kate: Reminds me of this joke about Jesus – this image of Christ looking down from heaven in dismay, shouting, that’s not what I meant!

Kurt: Yeah, not that I was ever comfortable with the Jesus comparisons. (John laughs.)

Kate: So, guys, I’m trying to paint this picture for people about what happens to their loved one if they took their own lives. Any input?

John: It’s not so different, really, it’s the same process which everyone goes through. It’s just more painful for some people. I’m afraid we’re going to see a steady increase in suicides as the years progress on earth. It is a traumatic way to go, and it leaves damage behind.

George: The experience depends upon the individual.

Kate: So, what if, when I was nineteen, or again in my late twenties, what if I’d succumbed to my depression? What would have happened to me?

George: In your case, you would have consulted your chart and observed you’d not completed the tasks you had set out to do. Usually (inevitably?) this results in another incarnation fairly quickly, as all of the legwork has been done already. Same guides, same goals, same basic life plan, with just a few details to be ironed out before going back in. Often people are reborn into the same family.

Kate: Wow, is that what happened with Ben? (My friend from high school, search for “Ben” on this blog to find the entries.)

George: It’s very similar. Occasionally a person’s chosen method is not to overtly end their own life in an aggressive manner, but to use a passive method, to become careless with their life, increasing the possibilities for premature passing.

Kate: So this is why Sid’s death strikes me as a suicide, even though it was, technically, an accidental overdose.

George: Sometimes the suicide process is very slow. We all try to help, but it’s a question of that person reaching out to ask for and being ready to accept help. You, (when I was 19) were open and anxious to grasp help. Many souls have already made the decision to leave incarnation, and will not accept help. This is very painful for those who love them. This painful process can, on occasion, be a mechanism to facilitate learning for other souls. In this case, the exit of suicide (or equivalent) is part of the life plan.

Kate: George, I just know people are going to ask me whether it’s in their life plan to commit suicide.

George: It would be unsafe for you to attempt to answer such a question.

Kate: I agree, I guess that’s what I’ll say. Unsafe for me, as well as them. Ultimately, we choose what we do. It’s confusing through, to integrate the concept of a life plan and complete free will.

George & John: Yes.

John: There is freedom and hope in recognizing your own free will, your own process. You can open your eyes in the morning in excruciating emotional pain. Yet you have free will, even if it is just in your own mind, what you do with that experience.

Kate: Lots of people are trapped in painful circumstances, without a lot of control to change it. I heard some chilling stories from war vets about POW camps, God. It’s amazing they survived that. The fellow I was listening to turned away from his religion and his faith after that. Became atheist. A total soul separation from heaven.

John: Humanity is a miracle, the sheer capacity of our bodies, incarnation, to absorb experiences that would not be possible on a higher vibration.

(John’s showing me how a high vibration point of light would instantly leap away from an unpleasantness. I understand how our bodies actually provide us with the grounding, the very capacity to endure and the opportunity – gruesome as that word is in this context – the opportunity to survive horrible experiences. There is soul learning there that is not possible, otherwise.)

Kate: You know guys, I’ve felt very conflicted, trying to reconcile the idea that we choose all of our negative experiences in life. Yet some days it seems very clear that’s exactly what we do, and I can see people push away help and reach out for more suffering. I also see people who honestly struggle and reach out for help, but help keeps alluding them. Something in my mind tells me that’s this person’s soul experience, and they won’t allow me to interfere with their learning by being able to reach them. Then I go back to the impossibility of anyone incarnating to experience trauma; suicidal thoughts are absolutely a traumatic experience. How can I explain / understand this contradictory duality?

George: You meditate.

Kate: George, you and your meditation. (Damn, I’ve been skipping it the last two nights… but I’ve had very busy days!)

George: There are some contrasts of the human condition which cannot be observed completely from within the human experience. Meditation is necessary to gain moments of clarity, and perhaps a moment of peace.

Meditation can facilitate a state of openness to help, as you observed (with my friend awaiting immigration – I saw her futures change after she had been meditating for a month.)

Meditation will connect you to spiritual help (angels, loved ones on the other side, pets). Meditation is essential for many during this process of transition, or else depression is inevitable. Suicide is the ultimate, heaviest consequence of this untreated state of mind.

(George is answering a further instant inquiry.)

It is impossible to know or to communicate whether an individual is experiencing mental illness and suicidal thoughts as a result of not reaching out for help, or as part of a complex, ultimate plan. To know would be to undermine that soul’s plan.

Kate: George, do you have advice for those struggling with depression and suicidal thoughts?

George: I have experienced this too. Know I truly understand, and I will comfort you when you call for me.

Kate – to readers: I get the sense this offer of help is valid for souls who are incarnated and struggling, as well as souls who have died and continue to struggle. If you are concerned for the struggle of a loved one, you too can call George and ask him to comfort your loved one. You can also continue to send love to this individual. At times, this is the best and only thing we can do to help.

I would like to encourage anyone and everyone to ask their questions about suicide. This is an open-ended offer, without an expiry date, so if you find this entry years from now, keep commenting, we’ll keep talking.

7 thoughts on “The Suicide Discussion

  1. (Ha! I picture Jesus doing that quite often. By the way, there’s a guy on Fiverr who will make a video of himself as Jesus saying anything you want for $5. It’s really quite funny.)

    There are so, so many comments I’d like to make about this and some of your other recent posts, but I should have gone to bed 5 hours ago and my eyes are starting to cross. But I’ll be back.


    • Well I’ll just look forward to your return!

      What would I want to see Jesus say? My inner comedian can’t resist this… obviously you just skim over the stuff he already said (love each other, forgive, etc.)

      “Olestra is evil. French fries are awesome.”

      “Pope: get over yourself. Have some chocolate.”

      Actually, I think I want to see Jesus rap. Well, I’m going to try and get to catholic church again this Sunday, if I can avoid almost getting killed. I’ll let you know if Jesus pops in behind the podium to bust a few rhymes.


  2. Not truly about suicide, although its an interesting topic for another date. What you wrote at the end about George. Can we call for his guidance even if we aren’t suicidal? Can he help with meditation?


    • Yes, absolutely. It’s important to remember that we don’t have to be in crisis to be deserving of help.

      George is an amazing spiritual teacher, and if he thinks someone else will do a better job, he’ll put you in touch with that person too.


  3. Rorie, I forgot to mention; if you search “pavilion” in the blog you’ll find the entries where I’ve described George’s teaching / meditation space. You can ask him to take you there, or he might take you there during meditation or sleep anyway. He seems to present this consistently to people as a teaching space.


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